Proof #1: Try Praying

December 13, 2007 at 4:00 am 49 comments

People read in the Bible that God will deliver us anything we ask for in a heartfelt prayer. This view of prayer is a childish and man-centered way of thinking. God is not a gumball machine: we cannot just pop in a quarter (prayer), turn a crank, and receive a gumball (the answer). There are a few prerequisites.

Marshall Brain’s website asks us to pray the following prayer:

Dear God, almighty, all-powerful, all-loving creator of the universe, we pray to you to cure every case of cancer on this planet tonight. We pray in faith, knowing you will bless us as you describe in Matthew 7:7, Matthew 17:20, Matthew 21:21, Mark 11:24, John 14:12-14, Matthew 18:19 and James 5:15-16. In Jesus’ name we pray, Amen.

There are a few things that must be noted about prayer before continuing with this discussion that our friends at this website have neglected to factor into their test.

First, there is an obedience component. Look at Job 22:27: “You will pray to Him, He will hear you, and you will fulfill your vows.” Or “Delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart” (Ps 37:4). What about Psalm 66:18? It says, “If I had cherished sin in my heart, the Lord would not have listened.” Consider Proverbs 28:9: “If anyone turns a deaf ear to the law, even his prayers are detestable.” Proverbs 15:8 and 15:29 say that “The Lord detests the sacrifice of the wicked, but the prayer of the upright pleases Him” and “The Lord is far from the wicked but hears the prayers of the righteous.”

Notice a pattern in the boldfaced words? That’s right: there is no promise of an answer in any of these verses, there is only a promise that God will hear you. Psalm 37:4 seems to be an exception. However, Psalm 37 has a future outlook to it; and therefore is only a promise of eventual fullfilment, not of immediate gratification. It should also be noted that, textually speaking, following the preceding imperative statements found in verses 3 and 4 will yield positive results. That means the Psalm can be translated as above (NIV), or as “He will answer your prayer” (NET). However, in the original Hebrew, the text promises only a divine blessing, not a direct answer.

Second comes a motivation component. This is key, because the prayerful cannot hide their true intentions from God (Job 10:14; Ps 33:15, 44:21; Pro 17:3, 21:2; Isa 29:15-17). Jesus, when tempted by the devil (Mat 4:1-11), reminded Satan not to test God (verse 7). Jesus was actually quoting Scripture, Deuteronomy 6:16. The consequence is destruction (6:15). That is not as harsh as it sounds. Keep in mind that God, according to the Bible, is not the author of destruction, man is (Prov 19:3; note that man also seems to blame God for this, which could account for the Bible promising destruction from God in these cases).

Third, the context of Bible promises includes not only the immediate verses, but also everything else the Bible says on that topic. Although there is plenty of New Testament material on prayer, I have been citing Old Testament sources to make this point clear. Jesus’ promise assumes that His audience knows everything I have just written.

Nothing in the Bible is written in a vacuum, apart from or separate from anything else. The Bible is a very interconnected volume, and it is important that one thing be understood in light of everything else on the same subject.

That said, let’s examine the verses in that so-called “prayer.”

Matthew 7:7 is the famous “Ask, Seek, Knock” passage. “Ask and you shall receive, seek and you shall find, knock and it will be opened unto you.” Brain says

If “every one who asks receives“, then if we ask for cancer to be cured, it should be cured. Right? If “our Father who is in heaven gives good things to those who ask him“, then if we ask him to cure cancer, he should cure it. Right? And yet nothing happens.

We would not expect anything to happen. We can assume that Brain is not obedient to God (Rom 3:23). We can assume he has the wrong motives (Ps 14:1-3; cf. Ps 89:46). The person knocking is only testing to see if there is someone behind the door. As Proverbs 19:2 points out, paths of ruin are created by men. Death, weather by our bodies failing, cancer, heart attack, stroke, or getting creamed by a bus entered the world through our own doing. God has never promised to deliver us from the consequences of our own sinful actions. Death will not be removed from the world as it is an age-old punishment for our sins. Cancer is, unfortunately, one way that death can take us.

Jesus did tell us to “Ask, Seek, and Knock.” But He also said that he came to fulfill the Law, not destroy it (Mat 5:17). Obedience to God’s commands are still very important, even living in this age of grace. Only now we obey by choice, not by requirement. Choosing not to obey will hinder our prayers.

Jesus tells us in Matthew 17:20 that we can move mountains with faith the size of a mustard seed. Nothing will be impossible! To that, our friends say:

If “nothing will be impossible to you“, then if we ask to cure cancer tonight, cancer should disappear. Right? Yet nothing happens. Note that if we take the Bible less-than-literally here, the statement “nothing will be impossible to you” becomes “lots of things will be impossible to you,” and that would mean that Jesus is lying.

The assertion here is that Jesus is lying if we can find a single thing that is impossible for us to do through Him. But that is just a straw man. That site is asserting that it is impossible to cure everyone in the entire world from cancer in one night through only the power of prayer. No Christian has ever, or will ever, make this assertion. It is certainly possible. But God has another plan, and as obedient Christians we must seek this alternative plan.

The use of Matthew 18:19, 21:21; Mark 11:24; and John 14:12-14 in the above prayer is just laughable. Although each of these verses promise us anything we ask in prayer, they attach the condition of belief in Jesus. Not a single person who runs this “test” believes in Jesus in a way that would fulfill the requirements of those verses.

Brain cites Mark 9:23 and Luke 1:37. To that, I say that these verses only speak of possibility, not certainty. The statements are that all things are possible, not all things God will grant you. It would be nice if prayer worked that way, but as I have demonstrated above, prayer does not.

And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective. [Jms 5:15-16]

Remember that human beings are eternal. So death is not the end, and it is not a denial of prayer. Death should be viewed as a calling home. The fact that confession is mentioned in this context indicates a “getting right with God” mindset to this verse. The verse expects death in some cases. In fact, death may be the most merciful answer to the offered prayer in some cases.

Then, this section closes with the following statement:

If you are an intelligent, rational human being, all of the examples mentioned above show you that the God of the Bible is imaginary. What Jesus says about prayer in the Bible clearly is not true.

No, these examples only show that God does not grant the frivolous prayers of skeptics with ulterior motives. What Jesus says about prayer should be checked against what the rest of the Bible says about prayer, since Jesus’ audience would have already known about the limitations discussed above.

Overall, the article represents a spoiled child’s attitude to prayer. When a Christian prays, he understands that God sometimes answers prayer “No,” “Wait” or in a very unexpected way. If one will not make allowances for God to say “No” or “Wait” or to answer it in another way, then one has already hardened one’s heart to the Holy Spirit and that is another matter altogether.

The prayer above is not a heartfelt, unselfish prayer as it proclaims. It is a test of God’s existence. God does not lightly dispense answers to prayer. He has a huge population on this planet to consider. Imagine the chaos if everyone on this planet got everything they wanted whenever they prayed. This would literally be a planet of lazy bums, and no one would appreciate anything they had.

People would take God for granted. He hates that (Ex 20:2-6). “No” answers or “Hold on a sec” from God should increase appreciation for the times that we receive answers, or a better answer than we expected. But atheists seem to call for bitterness and resentment whenever God says “No” or makes us wait longer than we expected. That is the attitude of a spoiled brat!

As finite minds, we are not capable of comprehending God’s infinite plan (Is 55:8-9). He built us to wonder about Him, not to understand Him. I cannot answer why He will not heal every cancer patient on this planet, but as an obedient servant I can only trust that this is part of His plan and that it will bring Him greater glory than simply healing everyone overnight.

I’ve talked quite a bit about how prayer doesn’t work in this article, but I’ve never really explained how it does work.  Recently, a sarcastic atheist by the name of Rus submitted #50 on the “Top 100 Impossible Questions for Believers” that hit the nail right on the head.  He said:

Why pray asking God to do something for you; shouldn’t prayer be a way of offering yourself to God in order for her to make use of you?

And this is the correct way to understand prayer.  The apostle Paul said “I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship” (Rom 12:1).  That is a biblical way to view prayer: offering yourself to God.  In fact, the model of prayer that Jesus introduced (Mt 6:9-13) makes no specific request except for what is needed for survival.   Mainly, the prayer asks for forgiveness of sins and for protection from further temptation to commit such evil.

Prayer is not a way to get anything that you want from God.  It is a way to offer yourself to God, and to deepen your spiritual relationship with Him.   God promises only to listen, and the model of Christian prayer asks only for what is needed.  The biblical way to view prayer, therefore, is as a way of offering yourself to God’s service, not as gumball machine from which you can win a trinket simply by turning the crank.

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Entry filed under: Prayer.

Proof #2: Statistically Analyze Prayer

49 Comments

  • 1. God  |  December 28, 2007 at 8:07 pm

    I think pretty much all you did here was prove the godisimaginary.com videos correct sure you can say god does not grant prayers to those who wish to test him but what about all the true christans who prayed for thier dying loved ones to be cured yet how many miraculous cases of cancer or other serious conditions have been cured without modern medicine or surgery…..none?

  • 2. Chucky  |  January 16, 2008 at 6:18 am

    In response to the previous comment, there is ample scientifically documented evidence that religious belief and practise do lead to longer life, including in aiding the recovery from serious conditions (see for example the Oxford University Press book “Handbook of Religion and Health”). Religious belief and practise is consistently associated with health benefits.

    • 3. Christians are mindless zombies  |  March 3, 2010 at 1:08 am

      GOD WANTS US TO KILL PEOPLE
      Should we kill?

      •Exodus 20:13 “Thou shalt not kill.”
      •Leviticus 24:17 “And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death.”
      vs

      •Exodus 32:27 “Thus sayeth the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, . . . and slay every man his brother, . . . companion, . . . neighbor.”
      •I Samuel 6:19 ” . . . and the people lamented because the Lord had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.”
      •I Samuel 15:2,3,7,8 “Thus saith the Lord . . . Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. . . . And Saul smote the Amalekites . . . and utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword.”
      •Numbers 15:36 “And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.”
      •Hosea 13:16 “they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with children shall be ripped up.”

      • 4. Christians are mindless zombies  |  March 3, 2010 at 1:13 am

        HOW TO GET PEOPLE TO DO WHAT YOU WANT THEM TO:

        You convince people that they’d better believe this ridiculous story(the bible), or they will spend an eternity burning in hell. How many of you Christians are afraid to question these nonsensical beliefs because you believe this story is true? Admit it

  • 5. Samuel Skinner  |  February 1, 2008 at 6:39 am

    So god responds to prayer, except when he doesn’t- are you aware of the term falsibility? It means there is a way to show something isn’t true; which by definition you just excluded.

    Health benefits of religion are substantiously less than the health benefits of having certain genes, being well of, or simply not smoking. Plus there is the possiblity of the placebo effect.

  • 6. Proof #41: Flip a Coin « God is NOT imaginary  |  March 11, 2008 at 3:47 pm

    […] a Coin Another proof with prayer as its central theme. I’ve already answered prayer here and here. Prayer is not a magic gumball machine, but a way to offer yourself to God. I’ve […]

  • 7. Jackal  |  March 12, 2008 at 11:41 pm

    You didn’t even address the times when God did say that he will answer anything you ask of him in prayer (Ex: MAatthew 7:7, Matthew 17:20, etc.) It doesn’t matter if he does say that he will listen, he also says that he will always grant your prayer. Like the first poster said, you did nothing but prove Marshall right.

  • 8. Kirk  |  April 29, 2008 at 6:08 pm

    Actually, the point made here does disprove the argument of Brain quite well, you are simply not listening to what is said because you have already made up your mind. Brain has God in a box (as we all do). The box that he has put God in is this – When I pray I get what I want. That is not the promise of Scripture. Anything you ask for in MY NAME, is the key to truth. The problem that a non-believer has is they do not understand what it means to trust God. When I ask God for something in his name I have a certain thing I want him to do. But by faith, and therefore in true prayer, I ask in his name. The name that is above every other name and that means I trust him above everyone else, including me. If his answer is not what I asked for I still got what I really asked for. I got the answer that is the result of in his name. I got His will, not mine. And honestly, sometimes I don’t like God’s will. I disagree with God, and I will tell him that honestly in prayer. But I know this, he has never failed me. I am not spoiled rotten nor do I get all I want, but life is great. You can not answer any of these things with clarity outside of faith. I wish I could. If I could make those who do not see the truth see it, I would. But I can not. The reality is that what I believe is foolishness to those who do not believe. I expect it to be just that because God said it would be. But, if they believed, they would realize how foolish they were for not believing. You might not like it, but it is reality.

  • 9. Dan  |  May 28, 2008 at 6:01 pm

    I believe that The will of God is perfect and we are unable to understand how it works and why it works it just works , i think that when some one does not get healed even though they have recieved prayer God has a specific purpose for not healing them and i think God is a resonable God and when i get to heaven i will ask Him why he did not heal so and so or cure cancer, yet i think alot of people are gettin caught up in trying to prove God , you cant prove or disprove God it just the way it works

  • 10. Dan  |  May 28, 2008 at 6:23 pm

    God loves you with and intense passionate, unconditional unearned love and nothing can take it away from you . I will be prayin that everybody involved with this website and the godisimaginary website will be able to feel and experance His awesome love 🙂

    • 11. uranus  |  August 16, 2009 at 2:16 am

      i also “pray” that you feel and “experance” reason and logic that marshall has been saying all along.

  • 12. Luke  |  June 13, 2008 at 4:28 am

    –All “answered” prayers are coincidences. Every person of every religion has prayed to their Gods, and people of different religions with different Gods have had prayers answered in one way or another, all coincidentally. And if you’re not Christian, then you don’t meet the criteria of the Bible to have an answered prayer if there is indeed “certain criteria” for God to have the will to answer prayers.

    Dan says:
    You cant prove or disprove God it just the way it works
    –No offense, but this is a very ignorant statement. If you can’t prove something, then it doesn’t exist or is not true. That also goes to say that if you can’t disprove the “Flying Spaghetti Monster,” or even the invisible man sitting on my shoulder that talks to me, then that must mean they exist. That’s just the way it works.

    –Also, who is supposed to serve who here? Man was supposedly created to worship and serve God, but yet, everyone expects God to be sitting around, listening for prayers, and then go around and please people by answering them in “mysterious ways” on occasion. How much more arrogant can people get?

  • […] James 5:15:  Like any other prayer, the normal conditions apply. […]

  • 14. White  |  July 1, 2008 at 1:55 pm

    Its simple. God is heavenly father. Right? So God said that we can’t test Him. Right? You all said that this means that God is imaginary becos we can’t test Him. Right? Try testing you own father then. Ask him ‘Daddy, i want a PS3!!!’ Your father can afford the PS3, right? If you really want it becos you wanna play with it, of course he’ll buy it for you. But if you ask him ‘Daddy, i want PS3 becos i’m testing your love for me.’ of course your daddy won’t buy the PS3 for you!!! Right?

  • 15. White  |  July 1, 2008 at 1:58 pm

    And anyone who wants to prove God to be fake, will probably have to explain to me all the times He DID answer my prayers. And too bad, maybe He only answered my prayers, becos i’m not testing Him when i prayed 😛 oh yeah, and i have that little thing called faith too. And what i prayed for, doesn’t happen to be a sin too (eg: God help me kill that guy)

  • 16. White  |  July 1, 2008 at 2:00 pm

    And OF COURSE God won’t give you all heads when you test Him with the coin thing!!!! Try testing your own dad like that! Mine will even slap me!!!

  • 17. Luke  |  July 7, 2008 at 10:23 am

    White Says:
    He DID answer my prayers. And too bad, maybe He only answered my prayers, becos i’m not testing Him when i prayed

    –Prove it. Give some examples and explain how they are special in some way or NOT coincidences. Also explain how and why every person of every other God of their religion has had their prayers “answered” in some way as well. Would that make their Gods true as well? What was the nature of some of these prayers and what are the chances they would NOT happen without divine intervention?
    Also, if any answered prayer involves human interaction where another person had to literally do something in order for your prayer to be answered, then it can be considered as a violation of free will. If it is not a violation of free will, then it is a coincidence no matter how you look at it. Do we not have free will, or is it just an illusion? What could you possibly pray for that doesn’t involve human interaction in some way to begin with?
    If any prayer is not a “test,” then it’s just a prayer without expecting a result. It then gives you an excuse to explain why it wasn’t answered, and then an excuse to say it’s not a coincidence when a prayer does get answered. Why would nothing be a coincidence just because something happened you “prayed” for? If I pray for sunshine tomorrow and it happens, would that prove anything?

    (And your “PS3 daddy test” is a weak strawman argument at best)

  • 18. Steve  |  July 7, 2008 at 11:37 pm

    The relationship between God and Prayer, for me, are NOT similar to a Genie and a Lamp, it’s completely different, it is closer to a relationship between a father and son, but still different. Petitioning God makes up a very small component of my conversations to God. The Psalms give a good idea of what prayer is (expressing fears, joys, petitions, annoyances, etc). Using the Lords prayer is also good (Our Father in Heaven, Hallowed be your Name), but only as a model.

    The issue of prayer and faith in Jesus and with the Father are things that are not tangible. Nobody can see a prayer just like nobody can see the wind, but I sure can feel the effects of the wind just as I can feel the effects of prayer and a relationship with the father.

    How is it, that when I climb to the top of a hill on a warm day and praise my God, I can feel Him, He sends shivers down my spine, and brings obvious undeniable joy to my heart that no-one else can give me. This is a truly spiritual world we live in, and its only when we seek earnestly after the Lord, desiring to know him intimately that we begin to see and feel things the way He intended.

    The following scriptures illustrate the fact that we deal with things that are not seen, if you need to see things in the flesh, too bad, it’s not the way God designed it.

    * John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that HAVE NOT SEEN, and YET have BELIEVED.

    * Hebrews11:1 Now FAITH is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

    We may see one thing in the natural, but our faith shows us something different that we dont see, in the spiritual. If you don’t understand, research the above scripture as it is much deeper than you’d expect.

    * Hebrews 11:6-7 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must BELIEVE that HE EXISTS and that he rewards those who earnestly SEEK HIM. By faith Noah, when warned about things NOT YET SEEN, in holy fear built an ark to save his family…

    Naturally he saw no rain but God revealed to him what was to come.. If you read the whole of Hebrews 11 especially from verse 32, you’ll see Men of God whose faith did not always lead them to a happy ending in the natural but there was always a spiritual victory.

    2 Corinthians 4:16-18 Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day. For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory, while we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal.

    Forget answered prayers, having a comfy life and/or even going to heaven, this is not what prayer is about. Jesus alone is worthy enough to surrender our lives to, prayer is just our way to communicate with Him. It just so happens that a small part of those conversations include petitions “in His Name” – which means being one with the Lord, NOT just saying “in Jesus Name” at the end of a request. Hit the Word and talk to Jesus, just talk…

    Psalm 37:3-5

  • 19. White  |  July 8, 2008 at 5:16 am

    God always answers me in small ways. i want cap, i got cap. I want my com not to hang, it somehow doesn’t hang.

    God ALWAYS have a wonderful yet simple way of capturing my attention. He knows i like DOTA (hope u know what that is) and whenever i forgot to pray to Him or is cursing someone for being a NOOB, (not nice things) he always seem to make me d/c. He’s not being jealous in this case i believe, He’s just wants my attention, becos He loves me ^^

    Oh, and you may say anything about my “daddy ps3 thing”, but its not an argument. Its an “experiment” for you to try out on your own dad ^^

  • 20. Luke  |  July 9, 2008 at 10:44 am

    @Steve,
    How is it, that when I climb to the top of a hill on a warm day and praise my God, I can feel Him, He sends shivers down my spine, and brings obvious undeniable joy to my heart that no-one else can give me.
    —So God messes with your brain to send feel good emotions and signals through your spine and to your heart organ? Ever hear of the placebo effect? I get shivers down my spine when it’s cold or when I get the chills, or even when I hear a song I like. Is that God doing that to me, or is it some other natural body function? Does God bring me joy to my “heart,” or do I bring myself joy? I can’t believe you would credit these “feelings” to some supernatural source. Does God only give happy feelings to your body, but not the bad ones like depression, pain, or other health problems? Surely God is responsible for those, too. What do you call it when these little “shivers down your spine and joy of the heart” don’t happen after you praise your God? It’s pretty laughable to say the least when you really sit down to think about it.
    –Do you honestly think that anyone else who worships or praises a different God than you doesn’t feel these things just because they worship the wrong God according to you and your own beliefs?

    its only when we seek earnestly after the Lord, desiring to know him intimately that we begin to see and feel things the way He intended.
    –Kind of like seeing and feeling death in the parts of the Bible where God brutally murders, curses, and drowns millions of people. I see very well what he has intended. Or do you happily ignore those parts of the Bible while only accepting the pretty, feel good parts?

    The following scriptures illustrate the fact that we deal with things that are not seen, if you need to see things in the flesh, too bad, it’s not the way God designed it.
    —I don’t need scriptures to tell me that any faith of any of the Gods of all the religions on earth deal with invisible things unseen and unproven with no evidence at all. The only thing “designed” here are man made religions, Gods, dogmas, and writings.

    John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that HAVE NOT SEEN, and YET have BELIEVED.
    — Every other religion’s followers can say they are “blessed” because they believe in their God even though they have not seen them. That’s what faith is, believing blindly in something. How about something unique that any other religion can’t claim the same about their God and religion as well.

    Hebrews11:1 Now FAITH is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
    –This one is funny. If faith is “evidence” of things not seen, then any faith in any religion’s invisible God is “evidence” that they exist. This verse is nonsense. If I have faith in hopes that Zeus exists, then that’s evidence for his existence according to this verse. Faith isn’t evidence for ANYTHING.

    Hebrews 11:6-7 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must BELIEVE that HE EXISTS and that he rewards those who earnestly SEEK HIM. By faith Noah, when warned about things NOT YET SEEN, in holy fear built an ark to save his family
    –Yeah, yeah.. More feel good faith crap with promise of “rewards.” And don’t even get me started on the imaginary Flood fairy tale with no evidence of it whatsoever, only evidence against it.

    If you read the whole of Hebrews 11 especially from verse 32, you’ll see Men of God whose faith did not always lead them to a happy ending in the natural but there was always a spiritual victory.
    —I just did, and it’s just a shame these “men of God” don’t exist in the real historical record and secular history outside of the bible. People like Noah, Moses, Abraham, Isaac, King David and others. Why are these “amazing” people not mentioned by name anywhere else in history? Anyway, why don’t these “faithful men of God” have happy endings? What kind of “reward” in life is an unhappy ending for his faithful followers?

    2 Corinthians 4:16-18…..
    –Again, more petty, pretty feel good faith garbage. It looks good on paper, but is no evidence of God. Spew out whatever “pretty” verses from the Bible you want, but it doesn’t negate all the contradictions, fictional aspects, and the archaeological and historical evidence AGAINST the Bible. The inspiration of the bible depends on the ignorance of the person who reads it.

    –And in response to your overall summary of prayer, what could you possibly be telling God that he doesn’t already know if he’s all knowing and knows what you’re thinking at all times? Prayer is nothing more than superstition.

    @white:
    God always answers me in small ways. i want cap, i got cap. I want my com not to hang, it somehow doesn’t hang.
    —Well, whatever “cap” and “com” mean, you’re basically saying that God is working through whatever it is you’re talking about so he can please you by granting whatever it is you wish. Pretty arrogant claim of you if you ask me. What else is he doing for everyone else at the same time while he’s making sure you get “cap” when you want “cap,” and your “com” doesn’t hang when you don’t want it to? What does your statement even prove, and what about this stuff is NOT coincidence?

    God ALWAYS have a wonderful yet simple way of capturing my attention. He knows i like DOTA (hope u know what that is) and whenever i forgot to pray to Him or is cursing someone for being a NOOB, (not nice things) he always seem to make me d/c.
    –No offense, but this is pretty hilarious. How can you forget to pray? Is there a required number of prayers per hour, day, week, month or year? If you forget one of these “required” prayer sessions, or get mad at someone who performs badly on a game, he gets your attention by disconnecting you? Is God disconnecting you, or is it your ISP or the game server? I think you read into the smallest things in life WAY too much and attribute them to supernatural means. You are truly a superstitious man with your false conceptions of causation. I play World of Warcraft myself, but do you honestly think I would go around saying God disconnected me from the game because he was angry at me for some reason? It would be incredibly ridiculous if I did, and people would think I’m crazy.

  • 21. Anti-Devil  |  July 9, 2008 at 3:36 pm

    Luke one question for you,why do you exist?do you come out by chance?prove me you come out by chance=D

  • 22. White  |  July 10, 2008 at 3:44 am

    well cap is something you wear on your head? com is computer?

    well thats my story, and in my opinion good things obviously planned happened so many times and just at the right times its FAR TOO MANY times to be coincidence. But thats just in my opinion, its my story after all lol. its not that i forgot to pray, but when you scold someone N00b, obviously God is not number one in your life anymore (for that brief period of time, like maybe 5 minutes). Yep! Thats just my story, everybody has one ^^

  • 23. White  |  July 10, 2008 at 3:47 am

    yes it can be my ISP or my server, but my server is far too good to lag. in fact, i NEVER lag while playing at home in a local game! Only when scolding someone noob, maybe. Or unless you think i’m lying, of cos 0.0

    Now thats something ‘scientific evidence’ can’t explain 😛

  • 24. Luke  |  July 10, 2008 at 2:06 pm

    in my opinion good things obviously planned happened so many times and just at the right times its FAR TOO MANY times to be coincidence. But thats just in my opinion, its my story after all lol.
    –keywords to note: Opinion. In my opinion, God doesn’t exist, and that’s my story. And how do you account for bad things? God planned the flood that drowned millions of people including babies and children. He planned to wipe out soddom and gommorah. He planned to have his son executed. Does God plan for murders, abortions, diseases, and wars? Does God plan for good things to happen to bad people? Does he plan for Bad things to happen to bad people? You can’t say God “plans” for good things, but never anything bad. And why is God “planning” anything for anyone? Why is God changing the course of history, or messing with your hat or your computer Just for you? You make it sound like God is in your pocket. If God is constantly around you like some kind of Ghost, then where, and what is he doing for everyone else all at the same time everywhere on Earth?

    its not that i forgot to pray, but when you scold someone N00b, obviously God is not number one in your life anymore (for that brief period of time, like maybe 5 minutes)
    –I never pray, and I play World of Warcraft, and nothing ever happens when I scold and curse at anyone that is bad at a game. Language and anger aren’t even sins.. why would God even “punish” you or whatever it is you call it just because you yell at some noob in some stupid game? God NEVER does anything to me because he is nothing to me. And I sure as hell don’t credit lag, disconnects, or my computer being slow to God. And by the way, update your computer, and it will never “hang.”

    yes it can be my ISP or my server, but my server is far too good to lag. in fact, i NEVER lag while playing at home in a local game! Only when scolding someone noob, maybe. Or unless you think i’m lying, of cos 0.0
    —That’s exactly right, It can be your ISP, and if it’s not the server, or your computer, then that’s what it is. And no server is “too good” to lag. Don’t act like a silly game server is perfect and flawless and immune to lag. Do you honestly think that God is sitting there waiting for you to get mad and scold some noob with his finger on the “lag button?” Do you think God gets into your internet connection and messes around with it to make you lag? Does he do this for every gamer? Billions of people on the planet would suddenly and miraculously lag up when they curse, scold, or get angry at noobs. No one would play anything. God is apparently bad for internet game industries, and gamers because no one would play anything if they lag up all the time when they get mad. It’s hilariously ridiculous. You need to look at the big picture and think about everything and everyone instead of just yourself.

    Now thats something ’scientific evidence’ can’t explain
    –There’s nothing explained here except that you take the smallest things and occurrences in life as some kind of supernatural signs.
    –And again, please refute my points I make in each post instead of throwing more crap out there and embellishing your own posts even further. Notice how I do it 🙂

  • 25. Steve  |  July 10, 2008 at 2:27 pm

    Luke, I will try not to use any scriptures as it seems they make you sick to the stomach 😉

    Firstly, thanks for your response to my post, it has highlighted things that I have definitely not considered (being a relatively new Christian) and is helping me think outside the box. I been listening to the teachings of secular historical evidence (conducted by Christians who are more experienced in the scriptures than I) and have been finding many new testement records to be documented away from Christian references, however I definitely have a lot of research ahead of me, especially the old testament (which is apparently fictitious). I have had a look at a few magazines and websites about creation teaching (i.e. Creation Magazine) and they do seem to have quite convincing evidence to support many biblical topics.

    You apparently know your stuff (both the bible and historical evidence) and you said:
    “Spew out whatever “pretty” verses from the Bible you want, but it doesn’t negate all the contradictions, fictional aspects, and the archaeological and historical evidence AGAINST the Bible.”

    It seems that there is a lot of material supporting both arguments; for and against Creation, God, Prayer, etc. I believe these disputes could go on forever and probably will due to Christianity not being physically tangible to man. Similarly, for every comment you made to my post, I have a rebuttal (highly convincing in my mind) that I could share with you, and round in circles we would go.

    Man can only go by what he knows, he understands, and feels however I reckon we choose our convictions. People that are open to the scriptures and (as I alluded to previously) truly open to a RELATIONSHIP with God, will find the scriptures true, useful and real; Those who do not have the same openness, will not. Their mind is already made up. If we see/read/feel/experience something and agree with it, it supports our convictions and we side with it.

    For me, I will never deny that God does not exist, say that the scriptures are not the inspired Word of God or claim that prayer is ‘nothing more than a superstition’ because of what I have experienced. Laugh all you want but FOR ME, I would be ‘ignorant’ to do so. The Lord is so real to me; I have no doubt that what I believe is real. I know that often I am wrong, but even if I am incorrect with this, my convictions are too strong that I do not even care, my life is ill-spent any other way.

    I guess no matter what is said, whatever proof is given for Christianity being legit, you may never accept it because your mind is already made up, and just the same for me with all your against aguements.

    My question for you… Why are you even here on this site? I’m not trying to be a kook, i’m wondering why you would invest your time into something like this, are you trying to convert Christians into your unbelief. I hope that you are not just looking to show off your knowledge, provoke Christians and get them all riled up that they might try to convert you to their ways. Well if it is, for all i care, you can go to hell, by choosing an eternity without Christ.

  • 26. Steve  |  July 10, 2008 at 2:31 pm

    I wrote “For me, I will never deny that God does not exist,” I meant to say ” I will never deny God’s existance”.. you know what I meant

  • 27. luke  |  July 10, 2008 at 11:35 pm

    @Steve
    –Although your post really isn’t about any refutation of any points I’ve made or any other insight into Christianity or God to counter argue against, I will address some of the points you made none the less as they deserve a response. 🙂

    I have had a look at a few magazines and websites about creation teaching (i.e. Creation Magazine) and they do seem to have quite convincing evidence to support many biblical topics.
    –Yes, I’ve come across creationist things that really do seem convincing at first glance, but when I look at the counter arguments, they often utterly destroy creationist “science.” Check out youtube and search for Kent Hovind and John pendleton and watch their video lectures. Then watch the counter arguments made by users “cdk007” and “thunderf00t.” Or Watch the series “creation vs. Evolution: what the scientists have to say” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7Ctl9nzEqs for the scientists point of view.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS5vid4GkEY series for refutations against many creationist fallacies.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bRvt0InhYk for why the universe is old, and how young earth creationists must deny gravity if they believe the Earth and the universe is 6000 years old. (my personal favorite video for educational content.. I love astronomy, lol)

    Similarly, for every comment you made to my post, I have a rebuttal (highly convincing in my mind) that I could share with you, and round in circles we would go.
    –Let’s hear them then.

    I guess no matter what is said, whatever proof is given for Christianity being legit, you may never accept it because your mind is already made up, and just the same for me with all your against aguements.
    –That is what debating is all about, which is hearing two sides of a subject or argument. And as far as my mind “already being made up,” I was once a Christian who dove head first into blind faith, and was then turned away on my own when I started critically thinking about the illogical aspects of God and content in the Bible and started learning sciences such as astronomy, geology, and evolution. All of them point to an old Earth, an Old Universe, and a completely natural way for life to exist in its many forms and species we see today. This was long ago, and then I stumbled on to the http://www.Godisimaginary.com site and it piqued my curiosity again on the “God subject” and then I stumbled onto this site and started debating these refutations presented here. I have an open mind, but so far, nothing presented here or anywhere else is enough to seal the deal again for me yet.

    But you should note that there is no real “proof” of Christianity being legit, just what you could barely call “evidence.” Our existence is not proof, and neither is the bible, or anything written in it no more than any other religious texts are proof of their Gods. If God doesn’t exist, then the Bible is just ancient myths and legends written by man to glorify themselves, their God, and their culture. If God doesn’t exist, then the universe is old, the earth is old, life evolved, man evolved, language evolved, writing evolved, and finally, myths and legends evolved through word of mouth for many years before being written down, and poof, there’s your bible.

    Why are you even here on this site? I’m not trying to be a kook, i’m wondering why you would invest your time into something like this, are you trying to convert Christians into your unbelief
    –Why is this site even here? Why would the site administrator invest his time into something like this to refute http://www.godisimaginary.com? Is he trying to convert people into his belief?
    –The way I see it, this site is opening it’s doors to debate by debating with Marshall Brain’s site. He refutes Brain, I refute him. You refute me, I refute you. And I could really care less if any Christian converts to atheism, or any of the other religions on Earth. I am here to both promote critical thinking down to the last details, and to hear what other Christians have to say about my point of views.

  • 28. Steve  |  July 15, 2008 at 8:22 am

    Good reply, unfortunately I guess I do not share the same passion to debate this topic as you. I hope you find more determined debators than I. Maybe I need to see an end to a discussion and this is one I definitely do not see concluding anytime soon. As much as this has been a great challenge to my thinking, there are other topics grabbing for my attention. Thanks Luke. you have changed my attitude; keep stirring us Christians and I guess your own thinking also.

  • 29. Anti-Devil  |  July 19, 2008 at 6:17 pm

    Yea Luke has been stirring everyone in the last 50 comments i have been stirring against him also,its tiring..but worth it..Because I LIVE IN THIS WORLD ONLY TO GLORIFY GOD AND SAVE MORE PEOPLE AND PREACH THE GOSPEL,other then that i have no reasons for living.

  • 30. Jake Jensen  |  August 18, 2008 at 4:12 pm

    Jake Jensen Says:

    August 18, 2008 at 4:09 pm
    Hi. I’m from Is God Imaginary?. It’s a spin-off of the God Is Imaginary and the Amputee forum. Rather than create a site and forum where believers are treated like morons, this forum was created by atheists and theists alike. The site, iteslf, takes no stand on whether God is imaginary. We invite atheists and believers to come together, to share their ideas, and to learn from each other. Feel free to stop by, as we could always use a few more believers. Thanks. : )

    Jake
    (click my name for the link)

  • 31. ryan cameron  |  September 26, 2008 at 1:21 pm

    When will you religious types stop spreading your ignorance? God IS imaginary, that is to say, pretend: non-extant. You can use all the rhetoric you want, but that doesnt make him real. Quoting scripture doesnt make him real either. Just because you or anyone else “claims to know he is real” again, doesnt make him real. Only evidence, that is, hard proof.

    In fact, the burden of proof to prove the existence of god is beyond any other thing that exists, because the threat you religious types persist in spreading is that Hell awaits those who do not accept his existence as a fact.

    Nothing else in existence has that same level of threat associated with acceptance of its existence.

    So, not only do you have to prove God’s existence, you have to prove he exists more resoundingly than I can prove to you that my coffee cup exists, than my house, my country, my planet, and even my universe exists.

    Sadly for you, you cant prove God’s existence even as much as I can prove the smallest dead skin cell embedded in my carpet exists.

    So, please stop dedicating, no, wasting your life and opportunity on this planet spreading ignorance helping to keep people in the dark ages. The world is a wonderful place, there is so much you could be using your obvious intellect and talent of communciation to actually, really help others.

  • 32. Vong  |  November 3, 2008 at 7:48 am

    hmmm – there are interesting points all over this forum. I’m enjoying myself very much. Please understand where I am coming from. I am not an atheist. Beyond that I do not know.

    well – from many arguments with atheists and theists. I think it is correct to say defining God is difficult. Any definition of God inevitably can be taken down by logic. Conversely, defining God is quite a difficult task. I consider these points quite unanswerable because we have not a complete understanding of existence. If there is a God as such – I expect the complexity to be as complicated if not more than existence. Hence – how do we reach any agreement on what is God?

    This then makes the answered/unanswered prayers question also inconclusive. If we cannot determine the nature of God – how do we decide what he would or would not do? I did enjoy as many did the God is not a gumball machine statement.

    Yes, burden of proof is upon those who claim that there is a God. Atheists have the simpler task of simply breaking every theory they come by. Again definition and knowledge are limited – therefore we will not satisfy at this point of time any requests of proof of God.

    Again – rationality does point to us – just because you cannot prove it, perceive it, etc does not mean it does not exist.

    I think mostly my conclusion is that there is too little information at hand to make a sound decision. There are many case studies of currently unexplained phenomena of significance – and neither side have complete evidence. Which is why I am loathe to place my bet either way. Atheists only have an understanding of reality as deep as theists who are open enough to accept what discovery has shown us to be true.

    I dislike some points brought up though by the forum.
    Claiming that all theists waste their lives is a rather emotive and biased thinking. Many historical figures are shown to be religious and equally have achieved great scientific and social contributions. I always like remembering that Einstein believed in something greater.

    Claiming that religions are backward and ignorant is another emotive statement. Firstly, the growing atheist world can find amongst its own community many who are indolent about the subject and practice backward and ignorant practices. The anger and hate borne for religious people is already a sign of backwardness. Ignorance of religions beyond the Judeo-Christian religions also lead to this statement. Hinduism and Buddhism interestingly can fit into the modern world without too much alteration. This argument is almost akin to claiming that television is the root of increasing violence – violence is not increasing for one, we are a violent species, and television has not changed our high level of violence. From here too – religious people should be aware – just because someone is religious doesn’t make him different from the atheist. Indeed harm, ignorance, backwardness exist as readily within the theist community as the atheist community.

    We are all still only human

  • 33. Proof of God  |  March 27, 2009 at 3:30 am

    Eye Opening Video
    To Hell and Back by Dr. Maurice Rawlings
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4136610474021109864
    Lazarus Phenomenon
    http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=-5186211187154170413
    Falling to heaven
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-683189229256568023

    Here is a miracle you can visit among many others:
    http://full-of-grace-and-truth.blogspot.com/2009/01/miraculous-myrrh-flowing-icon-of.html

    Eye opening Scientific Documentaries:
    Unlocking the Mystery of Life
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4227651822099649881
    Privileged Planet
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5488284265590289530

  • 34. ryan cameron  |  April 28, 2009 at 11:56 am

    I’m an atheist and all, but I am really impressed the person running this blog allows comments. Most of these “christian” atheist refuting sites like God Tube kick out dissenters because they cant argue with them, but this person clearly has confidence enough to tolerate and not delete other viewpoints. The truth only comes from dialogue, not monologue. Kudos!

  • 35. JDSTATS  |  May 5, 2009 at 5:22 pm

    I never understood his point at all. I have sought and I have found, I have asked and I have recieved, I have knocked and the door has been opened. I did not seek for self-gratification, I did not ask for an easy unchallenging life, and I did not knock and not leave enough time for the door to be opened. I have dyslexia, I did not ask for it to be taken away, but for God to give me the strength to push through it. I’ve had struggles, I did not ask God to take them away, but to help me learn from them. Brain seems to want everything given to him on a silver platter, but how would one learn from that? What type of father sheilds his child so much that they can’t learn and grow? What is the point of living with others, if their wrong actions have no affect upon us? Are we not here to learn and grow in wisdom and love? Can that be done with never having any bad consequences befall us? Take everything God gives you as a blessing, because the good times and bad times, the rejoicing and the pain are all gifts of God to allow us to grow stronger, wiser and more loving in the spirit.

  • 36. JDSTATS  |  May 6, 2009 at 4:51 pm

    Christians:
    While these “proofs” can be shown as only the folly of man’s logic, one would do well to remember the quote:
    [The Church of God] is an anvil on which many a hammer has been broken.
    [1853 G. De felice Hist. Protestants of France I. II. v. 156 (tr. Beza to King of Navarre, 1562)]
    While the views of these athiests may seem logical on the surface, they only lead to illogical conclusions. Their viewpoints about how one should live lead only to one’s own moral compass. Views of “love your neighbor as yourself” are replaced by “do what ensures your evolutionary survival”. Views of “judge not lest ye be judged” is replaced by “all who disagree with me are unscientific idiots”. They have focused on the hows of life and completely forgotten about the whys. Their viewpoints of the certainty of scientific “conclusions” (they have made, not science has made) are in direct conflict with the edicts of science in which nothing is certain.
    Athiests:
    I don’t pretend to know how God will judge you, but I hope he is merciful. Otherwise, I wish you love, peace and wisdom.

  • 37. Legend and Lore  |  May 15, 2009 at 2:23 pm

    “There is a a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated— And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.”

    In order for prayer to work, one needs at least one of these three things(listed in order of importance):
    1. Faith: You need to KNOW that your prayer will work

    2. Concentration. You need to focus all of your thoughts on that cause, you also need to have concern for that cause. If you pray for someone you don’t even care about, it won’t happen.

    3. Righteousness In some cases, you need to become worthy to obtain the blessing you are asking for, however, if someone is unrighteous, and prays to God with enough faith and concentration, that prayer will be answered

  • 38. blahsphemer  |  December 1, 2009 at 6:48 pm

    The use of Matthew 18:19, 21:21; Mark 11:24; and John 14:12-14 in the above prayer is just laughable. Although each of these verses promise us anything we ask in prayer, they attach the condition of belief in Jesus. Not a single person who runs this “test” believes in Jesus in a way that would fulfill the requirements of those verses.
    Got news for your there is not a single person in the world ‘including ALL christians’ who runs this “test” believes in Jesus in a way that would fulfill the requirements of those verses.
    because jeus completely ignores this prayer.

  • 39. Steve Sexton  |  December 27, 2009 at 5:53 am

    I am truyly sorry for the heathens that created this site, but alas, my work is not to to deal with simple heathens. My life is a testimony of God’s word and his will. I pray, he listens. He has blessed me with everything I have prayed for; as he has promised only because I am righteous before him. I am not only blessed, but powerful. I pray, he listens. I meditate, he speaks. And, you, you go round and round in your hell. Words are not sufficient in his world or ours to change anything. You are weak and lost in your reasonable and ungodly mind. You have my pity because what you do is only vanity, whereas many like myself have become strong in His Word and we change the world; and the heathens become weaker and can do nothing. There is nothing you can do about the righteous, as your only power is to divide weak minds.

  • 40. Steve Sexton  |  December 27, 2009 at 5:56 am

    I am truly sorry for the heathens that created this site, but alas, my work is not to to deal with simple heathens. My life is a testimony of God’s word and his will. I pray, he listens. He has blessed me with everything I have prayed for; as he has promised only because I am righteous before him. I am not only blessed, but powerful. I pray, he listens. I meditate, he speaks. And, you, you go round and round in your hell. Words are not sufficient in his world or ours to change anything. You are weak and lost in your reasonable and ungodly mind. You have my pity because what you do is only vanity, whereas many like myself have become strong in His Word and we change the world; and the heathens become weaker and can do nothing. There is nothing you can do about the righteous, as your only power is to divide weak minds.

  • 41. blahsphemer  |  December 28, 2009 at 7:46 pm

    ok Steve Sexton
    your god says this
    \/ \/ \/
    James 5:15-16:
    And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.

    sense you say
    “My life is a testimony of God’s word and his will.”
    and
    “I pray, he listens. He has blessed me with everything I have prayed for;”
    and
    “as he has promised only because I am righteous before him.”
    and
    “I am not only blessed, but powerful.”

    Then why don’t you put your faith where your mouth is and ask your god to regenerate the lost limb of an amputee.
    We will then see if you speak truthfuly sense you claim he blesses you with everthing thing you pray for.
    Don’t give me any excusses for not trying just do it.
    If it dosen’t work it means you are not righteous and a lier

  • 42. sirian  |  January 11, 2010 at 12:19 am

    You do realise that It’s Zeus answering your prayers right? If you dont think so, prove me wrong.

  • 43. Rurangwa Joseph  |  February 21, 2010 at 7:43 pm

    The Bible shows us clearly that there is more to hope for than physical well being. I still believe in a God who assures me of forgiveness even if he does not always grant my physical desires.

  • 44. David  |  February 23, 2010 at 4:21 am

    I am living proof that prayer does not work. For most of my life I was a bible-believing, born-again christian. I began to realize around the age of 13 that I was physically and emotionally attracted to members of the same sex as me. Because I was a christian and believed what the bible says about God’s attitude towards homosexuality, I immediately prayed and asked God to remove this “affliction” from me. Well, God apparently was busy with other things because I kept right on having those desires with no let up. Controlling them myself didn’t work, so I knew that relying on God was the only answer. I continued with this torment until I was 32 years old, and it was torment. I couldn’t understand why I was being ignored when I was honestly, sincerely praying, believing that I would be given the strength to overcome my “evil” desires. To make a long story short, after a long time and really reading the bible without the pre-conception drilled into by my parents and the church, I saw that it was all just mythology — just like Zeus or Thor or Osiris, and that I was praying to a being just as imaginary as Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny. I am now living an openly homosexual life with no more torment about it being sinful or an abomination, and I’m the happiest that I have ever been in my entire life. Oh, and if I need something now, I find it works much better to rely on myself or on those that love me — real people who actually respond when I need them.

  • 45. Christians are mindless zombies  |  March 3, 2010 at 1:03 am

    GOD ASKS US TO KILL PEOPLE
    Should we kill?
    •Exodus 20:13 “Thou shalt not kill.”
    •Leviticus 24:17 “And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death.”
    vs
    •Exodus 32:27 “Thus sayeth the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, . . . and slay every man his brother, . . . companion, . . . neighbor.”
    •I Samuel 6:19 ” . . . and the people lamented because the Lord had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.”
    •I Samuel 15:2,3,7,8 “Thus saith the Lord . . . Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. . . . And Saul smote the Amalekites . . . and utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword.”
    •Numbers 15:36 “And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.”
    •Hosea 13:16 “they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with children shall be ripped up.”

  • 46. Christians are mindless zombies  |  March 3, 2010 at 1:05 am

    GOD THIRSTS FOR HUMAN BLOOD
    Does God accept human sacrifice?

    •Deuteronomy 12:31 “Thou shalt not do so unto the Lord thy God: for every abomination to the Lord, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.”
    vs

    •Genesis 22:2 “And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.”
    •Exodus 22:29 “For thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors; the firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me.”
    •Judges 11:30-39 “And Jephthah vowed a vow unto the Lord, and said, If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hand, Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the Lord’s, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering. So Jephthah passed over unto the children of Ammon . . . and the Lord delivered them into his hands. . . . And Jephthah came to Mizpeh unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances: . . . And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed.”
    •II Samuel 21:8-14 “But the king [David] took the two sons of Rizpah . . . and the five sons of Michal . . . and he delivered them into the hands of the Gibeonites, and they hanged them in the hill before the Lord: and they fell all seven together, and were put to death in the days of harvest . . . And after that God was intreated for the land.”
    •Hebrews 10:10-12 ” . . . we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ . . . But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God.”
    •I Corinthians 5:7 ” . . . For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us.”

  • 47. Christians are mindless zombies  |  March 3, 2010 at 1:07 am

    GOD DEMANDS HUMAN BLOOD
    Does God accept human sacrifice?

    •Deuteronomy 12:31 “Thou shalt not do so unto the Lord thy God: for every abomination to the Lord, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.”
    vs

    •Genesis 22:2 “And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.”
    •Exodus 22:29 “For thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors; the firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me.”
    •Judges 11:30-39 “And Jephthah vowed a vow unto the Lord, and said, If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hand, Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the Lord’s, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering. So Jephthah passed over unto the children of Ammon . . . and the Lord delivered them into his hands. . . . And Jephthah came to Mizpeh unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances: . . . And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed.”
    •II Samuel 21:8-14 “But the king [David] took the two sons of Rizpah . . . and the five sons of Michal . . . and he delivered them into the hands of the Gibeonites, and they hanged them in the hill before the Lord: and they fell all seven together, and were put to death in the days of harvest . . . And after that God was intreated for the land.”
    •Hebrews 10:10-12 ” . . . we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ . . . But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God.”
    •I Corinthians 5:7 ” . . . For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us.”

  • 48. Stanislav Petrov  |  March 30, 2010 at 12:03 am

    You haven’t proven anything. This isn’t a proof. It is a weak attempt at a refutation based on nothing more than semantics.

  • 49. JK  |  April 28, 2010 at 7:56 am

    Basically, you explained why prayer is not a reliable method for proving the existence of god.


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Click on any of the links below to see the proof of the same number from GodIsImaginary.com. If the link leads you back to this page, it means that that proof hasn't been tackled yet on this page. Please check back often, as I will be updating this site as often as I can!

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