Proof #6: Ponder God’s Plan

December 13, 2007 at 5:45 am 11 comments

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. (Is 55:8-9)

It is impossible for a finite mind to comprehend the infinite plans of God. However, that isn’t going to stop Marshall Brain from trying. And the resulting diatribe blames God for evil, which totally neglects Proverbs 19:3–“When a man’s folly brings his way to ruin, his heart rages against the Lord.” Once again, sinful man is refusing to take responsibility for his own actions.

Next, Brain lists several examples of why God’s plan is ridiculous, and all of them have one flaw in the reasoning: they are born from the idea that the only way for God to foreknow events in human history is to foreordain them. There is a distinction between foreordaining and foreknowing. It does not follow that because God knows I will wear black socks on Tuesday that I must wear black socks on Tuesday. This view of the world is called fatalism, and no Christian I know actually holds to it.

There is one additional problem with this section. Brain seems to only cite Rick Warren as an example of what Christians believe. Rick Warren is a pop Christian author and is not a theologian by any stretch of the imagination. He wrote The Purpose Driven Life as a Christian self-help book. That book does not teach a sound theology; it is only meant as a superficial introduction to the Christian faith.

It is obvious that Brain only has a superficial knowledge of the Christian faith and its deeper mysteries, such as the interplay of God’s sovereignty and man’s free will. It is fitting, therefore, that he only seems to have knowledge of books like The Purpose Driven Life. I’d challenge him to read books by real theologians, not people like Rick Warren.

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Proof #5: Read the Bible Proof #7: Understanding Religious Delusion

11 Comments

  • 1. Samuel Skinner  |  February 1, 2008 at 6:52 am

    Since god created the universe and everything in reality is either what he made or the material universe, then… ah screw it, just read John Calvin. It is called predestination and an all powerful and all knowing god must fullfil that. If not then god isn’t all knowing or all seeing. The only way for god to avoid this would be for god to arbitrarily limit his power.

  • 2. Luke  |  May 26, 2008 at 2:20 am

    You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!” [Psalm 139:16]

    —You completely failed to address that Bible verse that Rick Warren was basing his statements in the book from. To say you disagree with Rick Warren is saying you Disagree with that verse in the Bible. If you don’t agree with that verse of the Bible, then why do you agree with any other verses in the Bible? It’s picking and choosing certain things in the Bible to believe and disregarding others because they’re uncomfortable to think about. If God “inspired” the author of that psalm, which is not to say “inspired” means dictation, then anyone else he “inspired” can be wrong as well throughout the entire Bible.

    –I guess you could say that the author of that psalm wasn’t one of the inspired ones, and that he was writing down his own belief or idea. If that’s the case, then none of the authors of the bible had to be, or were even inspired either. What they wrote is their own beliefs and ideas as well. If God had any influence on how the Bible came to be in it’s current form, then how can he have let that false verse be published and included in the Bible if it’s wrong as you claim? Did God make a mistake? Did he want to confuse people? If he did, then he’s not perfect.

    “There is a distinction between foreordaining and foreknowing.”

    –That distinction is called coincidence. If God doesn’t know the future and foreordained the Bible and all the books in it, then it’s not a guarantee of foreknowing it will come into existence in any way, shape, or form. It’s all just a coincidence and no proof or evidence that God is real, or that anything written in, or added to the Bible in it’s current form is truth at all.. It’s all a game of chance. There’s no point in planning anything at all if there’s no guarantees. All the writings discovered in caves were all coincidently found.

  • 3. Anti-Devil  |  July 13, 2008 at 4:52 pm

    U call all those coincidence…how i wish wat u think it really coincidence..u have total lack of thought..seriously..it really shock me..or rather surprise me.. that U DON even know wat are a game of chances..u roll a dice u get 1 out of 6 to roll a face…if i give u a blank dice wat are the chances to roll out a face with a number on it? that is exactly the same with how this universe came out..brother..It is either by chance or by a creator…there is only this 2 ways..u cant find a 3rd one…If u chose to believe by chance….sure!!! but wat are the chances?..probablity close to 0=D

  • 4. luke  |  July 14, 2008 at 11:44 am

    how i wish wat u think it really coincidence
    –What?! Is this even English?
    –And I get tired of telling people this, but please address all of, or at least most of my most critical points in any of my posts instead of just one small portion of it with some vague, abstract, and meaningless rant.

    u have total lack of thought..seriously
    –*I* have total lack of thought? How so? And who the hell are you to tell me about my thought processes when you barely even make sense. I put a lot of thought into each topic and point that I write, and definitely more thought in regards to my spelling and grammar than you do. If you hope to make any kind of sense, please do the same.
    –And just what do you consider “an abundance” of thought? Blind faith in an invisible man? Making rationalizations for the existence of God and automatically think you’re right? Or is it ignorance of the evidence against God and the Bible and whatever else contradicts your beliefs and rationalizing them away, too? Please, enlighten me since you’re saying you don’t have any lack of thought but I do. (But please master, when you scold me of my stupidity and lack of thought and show me how it’s done, please use the spell check and correct the words with red underlines, and proof read your comments so they actually make sense in English.)

    that U DON even know wat are a game of chances..u roll a dice u get 1 out of 6 to roll a face…if i give u a blank dice wat are the chances to roll out a face with a number on it? that is exactly the same with how this universe came out.
    –This is nothing more than a VERY horrible straw-man argument, if you even want to call it that. Who’s the one the total lack of thought again?

    It is either by chance or by a creator…there is only this 2 ways..u cant find a 3rd one…If u chose to believe by chance….sure!!! but wat are the chances?..probablity close to 0=D
    –What are the chances your God exists by chance? Worse than the chances of Big bangs and other universes. The universe is here, so the chances are favorable to say the least. In an infinite past, it was bound to happen at one time or another, and may have happened more than once.
    –So tell me; What caused/created God? And don’t give me that crap about “God always existed,” because if you think humans and our universe need a creator, then so does your God. You can’t exempt him from your own argument just because it suits you. That is called ad-hoc reasoning.
    (An ad-hoc argument means “for this purpose.” For example: “For the purpose of explaining why God didn’t need a creator, you say he must always have existed with no cause so he miraculously needs no creator.”)
    –So now I ask, why does God NOT need a creator?

  • 5. Mark  |  July 14, 2008 at 5:58 pm

    1. God does not need a creator because He is by definition is uncreated. He is the final turtle, because you cannot have turtles all the way down.

  • 6. Anti-Devil  |  July 15, 2008 at 5:06 pm

    Luke,u think u are all smart,look at how pathetic ur arguement is..Every single reason can be passed off as straw man,i think u r really pathetic..who are u to tell me about my reasoning when u cant even make sense.Do u know wat is blind leading the blind? LOL don tell me it is another straw man..Maybe god should create u into a strawman.U think ur so smart? God is almighty,he is the creator..there must be a beginiing of things..scientist found out that universe has a beginning..so please..stop ur nonsensical rant and lowen ur ego a bit..U are only stepping on ur own tail..Don be although,its thought that u r just wasting precious time by stating some digusting nonsense that doesnt make sense in the crown of ur head to the soles of ur feet?talking about english? u are an english teacher? i think u will make a good one..tho..do concentrate on teaching english rather then teaching ur nonsical STRAWMAN thoughts…TAta

  • 7. Luke  |  July 16, 2008 at 9:29 am

    1. God does not need a creator because He is by definition is uncreated. He is the final turtle, because you cannot have turtles all the way down.
    –Then I’ll just say that whatever the conditions are that naturally cause big bangs, universes, hydrogen atoms, protons, electrons, neutrons, matter and anti-matter don’t need a creator either and now my argument is the same as yours. Whatever created the universe does NOT need to be an intelligent being that watches over us, hears our every thought, and punishes us for the stupidest mistakes and “sins” throughout our life and in some sort of afterlife.
    –Now here’s the big difference: If the universe does have some sort of creator, but none of these religions on Earth are true, then what does “the creator” want with us? Why did he create such a huge universe just for us with billions of galaxies, billions of stars within these galaxies alone, and even MORE billions of planets orbiting each of the billions of stars within one galaxy alone. What a tremendous waste of space just for us.
    –Are religious fanatics THAT arrogant to think all of this is made JUST for us? Can you really discount that there is absolutely no other life in the universe other than us? The universe is at least 13 billion years old, and there is many ways to prove it, so get over yourselves about a “young” universe and no evolution or natural abiogenesis. Life is just as possible here for us as it is on other planets in any given galaxy for other species to evolve whether they’re cells, animals, intelligent or otherwise. If you think the universe is young, then prove every cosmologist, physicist, and astronomer wrong.

    Luke,u think u are all smart,look at how pathetic ur arguement is..Every single reason can be passed off as straw man,i think u r really pathetic..who are u to tell me about my reasoning when u cant even make sense.Do u know wat is blind leading the blind? LOL don tell me it is another straw man..Maybe god should create u into a strawman.U think ur so smart? God is almighty,he is the creator..there must be a beginiing of things..scientist found out that universe has a beginning..so please..stop ur nonsensical rant and lowen ur ego a bit..U are only stepping on ur own tail..Don be although,its thought that u r just wasting precious time by stating some digusting nonsense that doesnt make sense in the crown of ur head to the soles of ur feet?
    —Lol.. getting frustrated are ya? Please tell me why my argument(s) are pathetic and nonsensical by addressing each of my points I make instead of one big ridiculous rant that is completely off topic.

  • 8. Anti-Devil  |  July 19, 2008 at 5:37 pm

    it is because THEY ARE LOGIC and u chose to dismiss them=D simply as that,i admit i am just a kid,but so wat,doesnt mean an adult is correct=D

  • 9. JDSTATS  |  May 5, 2009 at 9:36 pm

    If God did create time then clearly God would be greater than time. The idea of a starting or a creation is a temporal concept and would simply not apply to any definition of God. Luke, you have obviously heard this argument and rejected it . The real question is why you reject this argument.
    Personally, I don’t know if the whole universe for created for us, but what does that matter? Without God you can add no Why to existence. You seem to be concerned whether or not christians believe in other lifeforms in this universe. Who cares? We have not seen extra-terrestrials, and it doesn’t impact my life in any manner. Not having a purpose or meaning behind life, however would seriously affect the way I live. You worry about explaining what isn’t known at all without explaining the most obvious questions of life. Clearly the Bible discusses other lifeforms and that we are not God’s only creation.
    Could the universe have no life outside of Earth, sure if God created it for us, there is no reason to believe it was especially hard for him to do so or to assume that we know his purpose well enough to say he wouldn’t have. Either way, the question is irrelevant.
    Your faith in abiogenesis, however, is truly disturbing. You seem like an intellgent person, so I am sure that you have heard the improbability of this occurring. So you are basically accepting by faith what is scientifically known to be so improbable as to be discredited so that you can have the hows, while not accepting God, who science can not discredit, and getting both the hows and the whys.
    It is your choice, but I have to say that your faith is stronger than mine if you are willing to accept abiogenesis as a reasonable answer.

  • 10. JDSTATS  |  May 5, 2009 at 10:37 pm

    My question to the atheists is how they can truly believe that their belief is in any way backed by science.

    Creationist (the most literal of theists) do not believe in the theory of common ancestoral descent or macroevolution. This theory has never been verified by experiment. Also, it truly does not make intuitive sense that billions of mutations, generally known to be harmful, came together to form the complexity of life that we now see. It may have happened that way, but it does fall under any ideal of common sense.

    Atheists, however, disregard the law of biogenesis, life only comes from life, for the hypothesis of abiogenesis, life randomly came together from non-living material. Their arguments fall under one of two fallacies:
    1.) The law only stated to apply to macroorganism , thus not to the hypothesis of abiogenesis. This is untrue because all scientific laws apply universally and are not limited in this manner.
    2.) The law only applies to macro-organisms, because that was all it was tested on. This is untrue because many scientists have attempt to create a cell from nonliving material and have been unsuccessful.
    So Atheists accept a hypothesis over a scientific law that has been scientifically tested many times. While creationist do not accept a theory which has never been scientifically tested.
    How is this belief of scientific superiority justifiable?

  • 11. blahsphemer  |  December 1, 2009 at 7:11 pm

    God existed in darkness for all of the infinte past , so why all of a sudden does god create light?


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