Proof #49: Look Who Speaks for God

May 27, 2008 at 11:46 pm 8 comments

What we have this proof is Marshall Brain handpicking a few obviously disturbed people who claim to be speaking for God.  People who claim to be speaking for God are called prophets, and there is a two-fold test given in the book of Deuteronomy for people that are prophets:

If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or wonder that he tells you comes to pass, and if he says, “Let us go after other gods,” which you have not known, “and let us serve them,” you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams. (Deut 13:1-3ff)

First, the prophet must speak consistently with the revealed Word of God, or else the people of God are not to listen to him.  And:

You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD ?” If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him. (Deut 18:21-22)

Secondly, the prophet’s words must come true.  If it doesn’t come true, the people need not be afraid of that prophet.  The penalty, as prescribed in the Mosaic law, for a prophet who speaks the Lord’s name in vain or speaks in the name of other gods, is death.

I’m not advocating the death of any of the people in the example videos.  As explained elsewhere, we are not under this law anymore–it is written for our instruction.  The death penalty only shows how serious an offense it is to speak the Lord’s name in vain in this way.

Instead, I’m calling for a critical examination of each video, asking if the message in the video is consistent with the revealed Word of God in the Bible.  I think that we can all agree that there is no consistency between the Bible’s message and these videos.  We can also agree that these people are not exemplary of the human race itself.

Instead, let’s look at the people who do meet the criteria of consistency with the Word of God.  By contrast, these folks are reasonable and intelligent people.  They are exemplary of the human race and they serve God with all of their minds and hearts.  People like Billy Graham, Norman Geisler, Lee Strobel, William Lane Craig, and Gary Habermas.  Of course Marshall Brain doesn’t want people to think about examples like that because they hurt his case against God.  But, this isn’t a case against God.  It is a case against crazy people who presume to speak in God’s name.

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Entry filed under: God.

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8 Comments

  • 1. Luke  |  June 16, 2008 at 7:48 am

    If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or wonder that he tells you comes to pass, and if he says, “Let us go after other gods,” which you have not known, “and let us serve them,” you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams. (Deut 13:1-3)

    –In other words, this is a method of control, and is ridiculous. If a fulfilled prophecy seemingly from another God comes true, then this part of the “prophecy test” says it’s fake and a coincidence. Why isn’t a fulfilled prophecy from THIS God seen as fake and coincidence according to this same test? And why is God so worried about “other” Gods?

    You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD ?” If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him. (Deut 18:21-22)

    –Here we have yet ANOTHER form of control. In other words, if a prophecy shares a “theme” of the Christian God, but doesn’t come true, then it isn’t of God. Both of these little “tests” imply that dreams, whether they come true or not, are all just coincidences.
    -Then, you have to kill these guys. One because a prophecy came true that seemed to come from another God, and the other because he had a dream that didn’t come true and thought it was from this God. You can never go wrong with these tests because they say “No matter what happens, there’s always an excuse to stick with this God or die.” Control through fear. So here we have a “loving” God having people killed for dreaming and presumption. You better be careful what you presume, it’s apparently a sin. And get it through your thick skulls that even if you aren’t supposedly “under the law” and don’t have to kill people for -insert ridiculous reason here- anymore, people once were to be killed for this stupid stuff. So no matter what you say, it doesn’t make any of it better for any reason.

    People like Billy Graham, Norman Geisler, Lee Strobel, William Lane Craig, and Gary Habermas. Of course Marshall Brain doesn’t want people to think about examples like that because they hurt his case against God.
    –These are normal people with the same capability of intellect and reasoning as anyone else, and they surely don’t hurt Brain’s case against God no more than you or anyone else does. In my experiences with debating, reading, and having been a Christian once, I’m sure I’ve heard it all. Those people aren’t going to tell me much of anything I haven’t already heard before.

  • 2. Anti-Devil  |  July 14, 2008 at 7:56 pm

    Lol luke i kinda admire your futile attempts,i know you tried,we saw

  • 3. luke  |  July 15, 2008 at 2:43 am

    Lol luke i kinda admire your futile attempts,i know you tried,we saw
    –I see nothing futile here except your “attempts,” if you even want to call them that, to refute me without even counter arguing any points I’ve made in any of my posts you responded to throughout this site. I’ve debated with people far more intelligent than you are that actually make sense and take the time to write intelligent posts. It’s just a shame there’s nothing to admire from your posts.

  • 4. patch22  |  July 16, 2008 at 1:17 am

    ‘I’ve debated with far more intelligent people than you are’. Isn’t there something in there about pride before the fall? Many people think that they are smarter than they think they are. I think it’s called being a smart ass, but there’s probably another word or term for it.

  • 5. Luke  |  July 16, 2008 at 10:16 am

    Isn’t there something in there about pride before the fall?
    –Yes, it’s a cute little saying, but what’s your point?

    Many people think that they are smarter than they think they are. I think it’s called being a smart ass, but there’s probably another word or term for it.
    –Who cares? What does this have to do with anything? If you’re looking to debate with me on any points I’ve made, I will debate with you. If you want to psychoanalyze me, then keep it to yourself because that’s not why I’m here.

    • 6. Pierce  |  July 1, 2009 at 10:49 pm

      Oh dear! It’s been a year since i posted. What a smart ass I must have come across as? It’s a question, I know, but you don’t have to answer!
      I actually agree with you. But for the life of me, I don’t understand why I commented the way I did.
      I’m agnostic and working on a new blog here. Mostly to do with New Testament prophecies and how people are fooled by them. I came across a youtube user called ‘forbibletruth’ and found his research eye-opening to say the least…

  • 7. Anti-Devil  |  July 19, 2008 at 6:14 pm

    Lol Luke,u are by far one of the most INTELLIGENT nonsensical person i seen,ok so wat if i am nonsense? everyone will eventually get to see the truth..include u..so by then who is the smart ass u will know..=D

  • […] intelligence and the sanity of the preachers ordained by God to minister to his people. I’ve answered this point before, but only in general terms. Since these two are speaking specifically about disasters, I thought […]


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